Laurel_Spider even more powerful to offer worship to something you are at odds with
I would caveat this that the worship should be more "service oriented" than worship. We typically gain experience from service-oriented work when there's mutual respect either between the entity or those acting on their behalf. What comes to my mind is that I may learn more from an entity in the service of a Deity than the Deity directly, but this really would depend on the Deity, wouldn't it?
Laurel_Spider is a lot of why I never looked too deeply into demonolatry
Totally fair. In my position, which I remember quite well, I had an unknown Goddess that was more vast and powerful than anything I had ever felt before. She rejected my worship, so I wouldn't give it to any other. But I would honor and listen to their teachings. That's what Daemonolatry became on my path.
Laurel_Spider I find it interesting you were 'rejected,' Resoundly rejected. I hadn't had enough experience with entities to really "hear" yet, but I heard her. "That is not what I ask of you." But that was it.
Not the first time something was rejected in my early practice, either. I called on the Norse pantheon, too, and felt my path was elsewhere. I was pretty dejected at that, to be honest. It is still that way today. Why? Because I have served them before and I needed other lessons more importantly than theirs (again?).
Leviathan, too. Hecate had me practice evocation with him. He was the second entity I evoked. And once this happened, I was sent right back to Hecate! It wasn't for several years until I really started working with him in earnest, outside of healing. I wish I could say that I wasn't a bit hurt at being rejected by the very entities I was told to contact, but that's how it happened.
I do know why Hecate rejected it in my case. To have done otherwise would've put me at a disadvantage in learning from other entities. It would've prevented some experiences that I needed to go through and others that are forming right now still.
That would be fair. This was largely from my experiences with partial possession from nearly the beginning of my practice.
LHP, RHP, MHP. I was feeling lazy and used a shortcut.
Fair and I used to write down much more than I do now. I think it is both good and bad and since the good parts are largely obvious, I'll go to some smaller niche areas where I think it isn't, but this is just my opinion.
It can help some make incorrect assumptions that things didn't work because of arbitrary events or perceived laws that good magicians should be able to get around. We all know I have some very different views on what is actually necessary and I don't feel like beating a dead horse that maybe only a handful are ready to put into practice.
I guess I'll beat that horse a bit, but in a more productive way. As much as I disagree with Josephine McCarthy in some of her theory, I'll be damned if our practices aren't similar. She does it from a visionary magic pov and I do it energetically here, externally, I suppose you could say. I'm really not used to seeing such similar techniques and ways of doing things and I absolutely did not learn from her stuff. Again, I don't necessarily agree with her theory and it doesn't apply to a lot of my stuff, but the techniques and the way things are done is almost scarily similar. To wrap this around to the start of my entry, many of the energetic techniques I use were taught or a simpler form taught by other spirits - especially Belial, Abaddon, and Pele. That actually makes it even more interesting to me, since this came without the cruft of dogma.
Laurel_Spider People who exclude so much of their experience because it doesn't fit into a box
Sure, I can see this. Usually when I use this example, I'm thinking of fools on Witchtok, Youtube, Reddit, or similar that learn something basic or borderline intermediate and then is immediately an "expert". I've actually talked with Mythopeia many times about this over the years. She has a better pulse on the younger folk than I do, for sure. While I don't expect most witches or magicians to ever become anything more than intermediate, I do have to try to understand then for my grimoires. There has to be the low hanging fruit, an intro into intermediate level stuff, and then some guiding points for the others that want to move further.
It's a different structure. A "Priest" in that church is anyone with a transmitted "authority", typically males. There are two levels and you won't get the second one until adulthood. As I look back on the first level, which I did do, it was simply a transmission of authority. It was a sort of filtered Divine energy and all of the blessings and similar are simply focused channeling with a petition. That falls inline with making sure that "power" has to come from above, not dissimilar to traditional Taoists and Lineages, but more nuanced. They both petition UP to bring the energy DOWN, since there is a sort of groveling and "I'm not worthy" approach being taken. More substantial than simple humility and deference, imo.
There are a lot of Christians that don't believe Mormons are Christian. They don't do heavy worship towards or pay huge deference to Christ. He simply showed the way and was the First among Equals, in a sense. It's a bit different, but that's the essence of it.
Laurel_Spider I believe that when a person so wholly aligns themself with a [god], they gain power from such a thing.
They can, yes. But I think it kinda depends on the God/dess. Not all share power and if one gets an aspect that doesn't, it's a different experience. I have an example.
Varahi. I cam across Varahi in the Underworld book by The Sepulchre Society. In it, Varahi is a darker Goddess. Vengeful, jealous, ... a goddess one has to be careful with. I repeated her mantra many times, several thousand. I have an idol to her. Yet, I did not get the dark, vengeful aspect. I can call on it and feel it, but that is not who answers when I use her idol. Why? She knew I didn't need that. The author of the book, well, they get that one presumably most of the time. Very different experiences.
Another is Pele. Pele is fiery, jealous, passionate....a "me and only me" sort of Goddess. Have I seen that side? Yes, of course. But that isn't who comes through every single time. Or I wouldn't be working on her second grimoire. I have a tendency to rebel against such things. As I said earlier, I offered it to Hecate. No one else will get it.
It is a gross, blanket statement, and I think you, me, and @Dankquan understand this. It certainly flows more in one way than the other.
Let me add another dimension from McCarthy that I actually like. I've been using things from her Hierophant book (I am working with Pele's Line) and she suggests that one should consider move PAST the Deity representation into the Line or Elements they represent (as a Line - line of transmission). Doing this would allow anyone tapped into that line to move past the...perceived shortcomings of any particular Deity or aspect of such. Very interesting concept when you can conceive of how to do it.
To be clear, and I'm sorry for making this about me, I didn't move past Pele. Why? Because I can do that with the skills I already possess to tap into energy "types". Detail would derail the thread, but I've done it for years. Quickly, consider it more like opening a sigil for the energy, as opposed to the entity.
I caveated earlier up this reply that I do see some stipulations. But I also appreciate the different perspective you have a tendency to bring.
I will say that I've found numerous times that there is a difference with this when it isn't at a "God" level. Most of my experience in this area will be more Elemental or Nature based entities. Some of which could've been considered a local "God/dess". I won't pretend to understand where that transition would be and can see it applying to anything under a God/dess. I've felt some spirits here that are old....really old.... but they aren't/weren't at the God/dess level and haven't the same energy levels I've been shown from their past. For example....
There's an Earth elemental that was formed in a lava tube/tunnel here on Hawaii (I don't want to say where quite yet). I woke this entity up because most going through the tunnel just didn't...flag him that way. Granted, I get a little different treatment thanks to my previous (and current) work with Pele and land spirits, but regardless of why, he awoke. He will sustain himself for millennia after I'm gone with no additional energy. In a resting state, it could be near "infinite", but he could use the energy if he wanted to exert himself outside of his "zone" or rise to do different things. This could apply both for an against, but I felt I should bring it up for mind candy.
In my current department, we have some people who are first and second generational immigrants from Asia. In their case, religion played a central role with connecting with others of the community and a place where they can try to adjust between the old cultures and the new American one. It's been really interesting to me to listen to, but I also see that that secondary culture link becomes so important that it can lean towards near-fanaticism. These are Korean immigrants or their offspring and I've met many more who say the same thing and display the same behaviors. This actually evokes pity in me, compassion, and I can see that they need these connections due to the cultural need to fit in and be with the masses, rather than rock the boat.